Topic: contemplating getting g system for Egnater Mod 50

I have a couple of questions . It seems that this is pretty complicated to set up . I am looking to do this in stereo for my church .Is it possible to hook up in the following manner?

guitar > BB preamp > egnater Mod 50 > thd hot plate > G system > mesa boogie 20/20 marshall stereo 4/12

On the Egnater forum I am being told that with this amp Hot plate is not needed , so I might wait until I try the amp out first ,but I really want the tubes cranked etc..

I notice with all the posts here , that they say to go into the g system first , before the amp is this mainly to use the pedal function ?

Thanks

Re: contemplating getting g system for Egnater Mod 50

Hey, I saw your posts at the Egnater forum. I absolutely love the MOD50 and G-Sytem combination! Most flexible yet functional rig I’ve put together and very easy to transport.

You will need balanced cables and an ebtech line level shifter or comparable line level shifter.

Here’s how my MOD50 is wired with the G-System using the 4 cable method.

Guitar -> G-System Input ->
G-System Loop sends/returns to my floor boxes ->
G-System Insert Send -> MOD50 input (24' Balanced cable to front of the amp) ->
MOD50 Serial Send (Short unbalanced cable)-> Ebtech Line level shifter -10 in ->
Line level shifter +4 out (24' Balanced cable)-> G-System Insert return ->
G-System Output (24' Balanced cable) ->  Ebtech Line level shifter +4 in -> Line level shifter -10 out (short unbalanced cable)-> MOD50 Serial return


I agree with the comments from the Egnater forum, you wont need the THD hot plate. This amp is unlike any as far as not needing to turn up to make it sound good. Sure it sound phenomenal loud but you will be impressed at lower volumes as well. You can go out the parallel send on the MOD50 into the back half of the G-System and out the G-System in stereo to your Mesa Boggie 20/20 for a W/D/W (Wet/Dry/Wet) set up.

Congrats on the MOD50!

Last edited by MarcoR (2009-06-23 02:47:45)

Re: contemplating getting g system for Egnater Mod 50

thx alot man ! good to hear from somone with my own amp ( as soon as it arrives ) I was almost comptemplating going with the G force instead , because it seemed like this was going to cost quite a bit more with the g system ( line leveler etc.. ) and still wasn't sure how it would sound. So good to know you like it !

I still want to go stereo , might as well with all the great sounding effects . Would there be any advantage in going with the parallel fx loop rather than the serial for the stereo set up?

thx , Chris

Re: contemplating getting g system for Egnater Mod 50

Actually for just stereo, I would use the serial loop and run the #2 output from the g-system into your power amp. This way you’ll get the goodness of the Mod50 power section and if you need to scale down for a show or practice it’s just a matter of not connecting the extra power amp. I do this to run a loop station sometimes into a second cabinet.

For the G-system it’s recommended that you use it in a true serial loop for best results anyway. However, with the Egnater you can try it a few different ways with the serial, parallel and slave outputs.

Re: contemplating getting g system for Egnater Mod 50

I forgot about the slave out . I wonder if I could go slave out to the g system , then out of the g system into the stereo mesaboogie pwr amp .

The reason is I don't plan on using too much of the pregain stuff ,I will have pedals for that . Mainly want to use it for the post gain . But then again G force might be the better option in that case.

I haven't heard too much comparisons between the 2 sound wise. They are both the same price except the 1 is just effects and the other has all the options . I am wondering if the effects are better in the g force which would explain why it is the same price as the g system

Re: contemplating getting g system for Egnater Mod 50

Llewzaher wrote:

I forgot about the slave out . I wonder if I could go slave out to the g system , then out of the g system into the stereo mesaboogie pwr amp .

Absolutely.

If your just going for post gain effects and don’t need the floor board then the G-Force might be better for you. I believe it has deeper editing features and a kill dry too. Plus, if your already going to be carrying a rack for your power amp it’s a no brainer.

I like the G cuz I could do away with the rack!

Re: contemplating getting g system for Egnater Mod 50

Llewzaher wrote:

I forgot about the slave out . I wonder if I could go slave out to the g system , then out of the g system into the stereo mesaboogie pwr amp .

The reason is I don't plan on using too much of the pregain stuff ,I will have pedals for that . Mainly want to use it for the post gain . But then again G force might be the better option in that case.

I haven't heard too much comparisons between the 2 sound wise. They are both the same price except the 1 is just effects and the other has all the options . I am wondering if the effects are better in the g force which would explain why it is the same price as the g system

You may find that the G-system pedal loops make using your pedals on-stage nicer too. You can include/bypass them in the signal chain on a patch-by-patch basis - and then switch them in and out during performance using one of the G-system buttons.

The G-Force has more FX routing options. The individual FX themselves are close to the same.

The W-D-W setup as-described my MarcoR would sound killer - by the way. You could do this with either the G-System or the G-Force.

My own opinion is that if you want post-gain FX and only post-gain FX, with little in the way of amp/loop control, and you don't mind toting around a rack - then the G-Force is a good fit.

If you still want excellent post-gain FX, but want to have simpler performance-time control over your rig without shelling out for a lot of other equipment (loop controllers, foor controllers, etc.) then the G-System is a better choice. In short - the G-System removes a LOT of tap-dancing between songs when set up properly.

Last edited by Laird_Williams (2009-06-23 17:37:43)

Gtrs: PRS Cust. 24 20-Anny Artist, Yamaha PAC1511 Mike Stern Signature
Pedalboard: Barber Tone Press, TC NovaDrive, TC G-System, Eventide ModFactor
Rack: Egnater M4 Modular Tube Preamp, Randall RT2/50 Power Amp, Palmer ADIG-LB load box/cab sim
Acoustic: Stehr Coco/Adi Custom-build OO, Stehr Koa/Adi Custom Build GA, Stehr Braz/Adi Custom Build GA, Taylor 814ce-L10, G-Natural

Re: contemplating getting g system for Egnater Mod 50

ok thx guys ! A wierd thing just happened , I finally made up my mind on the G system and my migraine disappeared . I guess the choice was harder than I thought . So my egnater mod 50 should be here soon ( already at customs ) and the G system should be here in a week or so .

I am hoping I don't need to buy all of the extra devices ... Line leveler hum reducer etc.. but we shall see .

Re: contemplating getting g system for Egnater Mod 50

MarcoR wrote:

.

Guitar -> G-System Input ->
G-System Loop sends/returns to my floor boxes ->
G-System Insert Send -> MOD50 input (24' Balanced cable to front of the amp) ->
MOD50 Serial Send (Short unbalanced cable)-> Ebtech Line level shifter -10 in ->
Line level shifter +4 out (24' Balanced cable)-> G-System Insert return ->
G-System Output (24' Balanced cable) ->  Ebtech Line level shifter +4 in -> Line level shifter -10 out (short unbalanced cable)-> MOD50 Serial return

On your Ebtech line level shifter , I notice you are going -10 in , and +4 out , then you are going +4 in and -10 out , are these 2 different line level shifters ? Or are they 1 and you can choose which you want to use as the in and out ?
thx , new at this obviously ..

Re: contemplating getting g system for Egnater Mod 50

Yes it is one unit; it has two ins and two outs, converts -10 to +4 /+4 to -10 and unbalanced to balanced. You need it as the Egnater loops are +4 and the G-system is insert loop is -10. They're only about 50 or 60 bucks.

I ran mine without it for a while, just had to turn up louder and play with the loop levels. I also had a slight ground buzz on the high gain modules but the balanced cables do away with that. I already had a custom snake before I got the rig that included two midi cables and three 1/4 jacks. I just had to switch the connectors to TRS.

Re: contemplating getting g system for Egnater Mod 50

cool good to know .

So with your amp , did you keep the same settings that was in Laird's white paper manual ? I am just curious since we have the same amp . Also did you notice if your serial loop has any type of leakage ?

I am going to try the 4 cable method for sure , and try to run stereo with it .

I am also curious how it would sound going straight from the whole Mod50 ( poweramp and everything ) to the Gsystem , then out to the stereo mesa to speakers.

so I would go guitar , pregain pedals , mod50 ,gsystem ( post gain effects , pedals etc.. Line 6 m 13 ) mesa stereo 20/20 / speakers .

I guess i could also go guitar , pregain pedals , gsystem , mod50 pre , g system , post gain fx , output1 to mesa , output2 to mod 50 ....or both outs stereo to mesa ..

still trying to get my head wrapped around it .. I keep wanting to treat the whole mod50 head as a rackmount preamp , cause I am leary of FX loops heh . I guess that was why I was so bent on the hotplate :} .. so I could use the speaker out , and keep it on load , then line level to g system ...

Last edited by Llewzaher (2009-06-24 04:06:40)

Re: contemplating getting g system for Egnater Mod 50

Llewzaher wrote:

cool good to know .

So with your amp , did you keep the same settings that was in Laird's white paper manual ? I am just curious since we have the same amp . Also did you notice if your serial loop has any type of leakage ?

I am going to try the 4 cable method for sure , and try to run stereo with it .

I am also curious how it would sound going straight from the whole Mod50 ( poweramp and everything ) to the Gsystem , then out to the stereo mesa to speakers.

so I would go guitar , pregain pedals , mod50 ,gsystem ( post gain effects , pedals etc.. Line 6 m 13 ) mesa stereo 20/20 / speakers .

I guess i could also go guitar , pregain pedals , gsystem , mod50 pre , g system , post gain fx , output1 to mesa , output2 to mod 50 ....or both outs stereo to mesa ..

still trying to get my head wrapped around it .. I keep wanting to treat the whole mod50 head as a rackmount preamp , cause I am leary of FX loops heh . I guess that was why I was so bent on the hotplate :} .. so I could use the speaker out , and keep it on load , then line level to g system ...

You could try this one too...

Guitar --> G-System Front with Pre-gain pedals in the loops --> Mod50 --> G-System Back --> Outputs as-needed...

Gtrs: PRS Cust. 24 20-Anny Artist, Yamaha PAC1511 Mike Stern Signature
Pedalboard: Barber Tone Press, TC NovaDrive, TC G-System, Eventide ModFactor
Rack: Egnater M4 Modular Tube Preamp, Randall RT2/50 Power Amp, Palmer ADIG-LB load box/cab sim
Acoustic: Stehr Coco/Adi Custom-build OO, Stehr Koa/Adi Custom Build GA, Stehr Braz/Adi Custom Build GA, Taylor 814ce-L10, G-Natural

Re: contemplating getting g system for Egnater Mod 50

Laird_Williams wrote:
Llewzaher wrote:

cool good to know .

So with your amp , did you keep the same settings that was in Laird's white paper manual ? I am just curious since we have the same amp . Also did you notice if your serial loop has any type of leakage ?

I am going to try the 4 cable method for sure , and try to run stereo with it .

I am also curious how it would sound going straight from the whole Mod50 ( poweramp and everything ) to the Gsystem , then out to the stereo mesa to speakers.

so I would go guitar , pregain pedals , mod50 ,gsystem ( post gain effects , pedals etc.. Line 6 m 13 ) mesa stereo 20/20 / speakers .

I guess i could also go guitar , pregain pedals , gsystem , mod50 pre , g system , post gain fx , output1 to mesa , output2 to mod 50 ....or both outs stereo to mesa ..

still trying to get my head wrapped around it .. I keep wanting to treat the whole mod50 head as a rackmount preamp , cause I am leary of FX loops heh . I guess that was why I was so bent on the hotplate :} .. so I could use the speaker out , and keep it on load , then line level to g system ...

You could try this one too...

Guitar --> G-System Front with Pre-gain pedals in the loops --> Mod50 --> G-System Back --> Outputs as-needed...

Hehe ..I can see I am going to be busy just figuring out which way to hook up ...so many options ..

Re: contemplating getting g system for Egnater Mod 50

welll I got the g system . I hooked it up the best as I could ( I don't have the line leveler and balanced cables yet ) ..I at the moment can live with the hum .My amp is sounding good .I have set it up as per the white paper etc.. But I have to say the effects are not sounding good to me . I have only used the presets so far. I find my line6 m13 sounds way better , and that is not good for me . I am hoping once I mess around with the effects I can get them sounding better . One thing I do notice is my amp is alot louder going through the G system ,I am sure I will have to adjust the levels in the g system .

Re: contemplating getting g system for Egnater Mod 50

Llewzaher wrote:

welll I got the g system . I hooked it up the best as I could ( I don't have the line leveler and balanced cables yet ) ..I at the moment can live with the hum .My amp is sounding good .I have set it up as per the white paper etc.. But I have to say the effects are not sounding good to me . I have only used the presets so far. I find my line6 m13 sounds way better , and that is not good for me . I am hoping once I mess around with the effects I can get them sounding better . One thing I do notice is my amp is alot louder going through the G system ,I am sure I will have to adjust the levels in the g system .

That makes sense; the line6 m13 is going to be alot more plug n play than the G System.
How did you end up routing everything?

I would suggest that for now, plug the guitar directly in the front of the amp and get the G working in the serial loop. Use the B9 5 patch (All Bypassed) and and try to get the levels the same as without the G in the loop.

Once you get the levels right, start programming your basic patches. Try just getting a reverb sound you like on your clean, then reverb on your dirty.  As you build your patches, you can copy the reverb from your first patch.

Re: contemplating getting g system for Egnater Mod 50

Hey thanks man ..

I tried some different options . The main one I used was guitar into the G-system . Gsystem send to mod50 input . Mod50 send to G system return . G system output to Mod 50 return .

I also tried with an additional output going to my mesa 20/20 pwr amp for stereo .

To have the g system in the mod50's effect loop . would that be ;

guitar to Mod50 input . Mod50 send to Gsystem guitar input , or to g system return on the insert loop ? Then from the Gsystem output to to mod50 return ? or the G system insertloop send to the mod50 return ?

I do have to say that I like the " feel " of playing the guitar straight into the amp / w/o the effects . Going into the G system it is close , but not quite the same
Thanks again .

Re: contemplating getting g system for Egnater Mod 50

That would be:

Guitar to Mod50 input . Mod50 serial send to G system insert return. Then from the G system output to to mod50 serial return.

I do have to say that I like the " feel " of playing the guitar straight into the amp / w/o the effects . Going into the G system it is close , but not quite the same
Thanks again .

Me too.

Read this post from Laird about the same issue with his Egnater M4:
http://forum.tcelectronic.com/viewtopic.php?id=3653

Re: contemplating getting g system for Egnater Mod 50

thx man ... So I guess the valvulator might be the solution . I also thought I would try the parallel effects loop on my mod 50 . But I can hardly get any effect at all . I set the mix level to 100 % , I turn the effect level up all the way on the amp and I can hardly hear any effect at all . very faintly in the background I can .

Re: contemplating getting g system for Egnater Mod 50

Llewzaher wrote:

I also thought I would try the parallel effects loop on my mod 50 . But I can hardly get any effect at all . I set the mix level to 100 % , I turn the effect level up all the way on the amp and I can hardly hear any effect at all . very faintly in the background I can .

Set up like this, The only effects that translate well will be delay and reverb. This is where you will really need the Ebtech line level shifter. You should at least be hearing some delay. My experience with the effect knob on the Egnater is it has to be at 3:00 to max.

Re: contemplating getting g system for Egnater Mod 50

Thx man ,

I will order one and see what happens ... I did get the balanced cables . I do like the sound better going 3 cable method than 4 so far . It is starting to sound a bit better . Not quite as good as the M13 but it is better than it was .

I am hoping the Ebtech will make the difference . If not I will try the Valvulator if I can still find one .

what modules are you using in the Mod50 ?

Re: contemplating getting g system for Egnater Mod 50

Llewzaher wrote:

.
I am hoping the Ebtech will make the difference . If not I will try the Valvulator if I can still find one .

The Valvulator could help if your plugging your guitar into the G system first for the pre-gain effects.

The Ebtech will make the G work correctly with the Egnater effect loops.

Llewzaher wrote:

what modules are you using in the Mod50 ?

Bman, VX, SL2, EG3/4 and E'rect

The Bman and EG3/4 stay in the amp 95% of the time. The others get attention when I'm bored or need a specific sound for recording. I'm thinking about getting the SL2 modded to a GNR. I also had a COD and sold it but now I want another.  I think I'd really dig the SL as well. I really need an M4 too...

Re: contemplating getting g system for Egnater Mod 50

m4 is what I originally wanted but couldn't find one until after I bought the Mod 50

I got the Bman and SL2 . I really want a VX . Not too familiar with the Eg3/4 .I am not 100% happy with the SL2 . Maybe GNR is an option down the road .

I will for sure try for an ebtech line leveler . That makes sense that it would help with the loops ..

thx again