Topic: Effect Order

My questions in this series for your comments and opinions:
1.) Running Vibe, Phaser, Flanger, Chorus, what order would you prefer?
2.) Loop or Amp in?
3.) Before OD or after?
4.) Where do you like Wahs? Before OD/After? Before Vibe/After?

I go around and around with this especially every time I change pedals.
Over the years I have come to prefer a  lot of modulation and DDL in my loop as the most clarity, headroom and tonality. As for concrete choices no one could convince me not to run the delay and reverb in the loop line. I also prefer the chorus in the loop, the Corona into the Flashback is just a tone I would not part with. Hint also guys, that new tone print from the Nashville Dan Huff maybe, sorry not a country guy I do not know who he is, but seriously the best sounding chorus ever.

I run my phaser, chorus, delay and reverb in my loop, however I come and go on the phaser and vibe which sometimes finds itself at the end or otherwise in my amp in chain.

I currently use the TC Toneprint, Chorus and Delay and find them to be peerless quality and tonal units sounding the best in the loop. I do not have the Reverb because I had just gotten a Hardwire RV-7 Lexicon loaded reverb and could not see changing it out. I dig the toneprints and find them to be tremendous quality and versatile for the money. I have never gotten any effects I paid this little for and have been so impressed by their features and tone. I find the Flanger an extraordinary unit but I am running so much modulation I am getting lost controlling it. I dig it all but my brain can only keep track of so much, if I was not using 2 phasers I would have the Vortex Flanger as well.

Some like phasers before OD and my fav effect of all time is the Vibe and it seems to sound better on the amp in chain. What I have found over the years, is, position is highly dependent upon not only the particular make of the pedal but as to what it is used with. This is why sometimes we run into issues of guys saying put this here or there and it does not work for you or sound right. The chemistry between the guitar, amp and pedalboard is rather infinite, adding to that the infinite players touch and feel.

Vibe position: this one muddles me so much. I find it is very dependent upon the make of the Vibe as to where it sounds the best. I recently had a Lovepedal Pickle Vibe and the T-Rex Viper which are of the new tech "tweaked phaser" type vibe units which sound good but not quite the same. I find they sounded best for me at chain end after ODs. I just got, finally, a real photo cell circuit Vibe, the DejaVibe and being able to A/B the two types and positions I can now tell you the difference and the subtleties of the units. Mike Fuller as evidenced by the amazing tones of Robin Trower the Vibe God has his Vibe first in chain before Wah and before OD.  Now I know why, the real Vibe is lighter in effect, more organic and has more feel to it and it works better into a cleaner OD which helps boost and grit up its signal. When I think Vibe I try to get that Hendrix New Rising Sun Vibe tone when clean and the Bridge of Sighs mode when dirty. I did not like the new tech Vibes in front of OD just was too harsh and reduced the tone of the Vibe and pulse flow. I light OD enhances the real Vibe but a higher gain washes out the effect. So at higher gain I would say after and lighter gain or OD before. Creates problems as to where to put it because I like my rig to be very optioned in capability. As for Vibe, do yourself a favor and go for the real photo cell circuit. Probably nobody goes to such extremes to redo and improve with better quality and stable components than Fulltone. Some cost more but for the money it is the best bet. The Voodoo Lab Micro Vibe is a photo cell circuit and is low priced about $130 and JHS can modify it for $50 making a killer Vibe. I got my mini DejaVibe for $230 and I am really happy with it plus over the Micro pedal it has the vibrato mode and a vintage/modern toggle. BTW, some hate the vibrato good to remember faster speed or faster vibrato less depth.

Phaser: Same deal here. Some like to try to get the EVH thing with the phase into gain and that does sound amazing, BUT, here again it depends on the type of phaser. I find my Small Stone sounds like crap before gains and far more like the classic cool tones Page used to get after gain in the loop. It tends to be more intense after gains on amp in and a little more subdued in the loop. Depends on the unit. An MXR kills into gain or a gained up amp like EVH used it. A light OD after seems to work with about anything because it is not fuzzing up the signal too much. The reason Trower's Vibe first chain works is because he is not using anything but OD and if he does use a higher gain it is usually with the Vibe off. I run a buffer pedal boost first in chain followed by my envelope filter which just has to be up front.  Anyway, I talk too much as ususal, I used to be a writer so I tend to over verbalize subjects but sometimes I wish when looking for information someone would say something once in a while.

AMP IN CHAIN:  CAE/MXR Bradshaw Wah >Radial PB1 High end Buffer/clean boost >EH Micro POG (Pitchblack runs off dry out of PB1) >Wampler Ego Compressor >Wampler Ecstasy OD >Wampler Pinnacle Deluxe >Hardwire ML-2 >Fulltone Deja-Vibe >Ibanez Tube King (end of chain tube buffer)
LOOP CHAIN:   Hardwire Phaser, Corona Chorus, Flashback Delay, Hardwire Reverb, BBE Sonic Maximizer

Re: Effect Order

No one has any input into the pedal chain arena????

AMP IN CHAIN:  CAE/MXR Bradshaw Wah >Radial PB1 High end Buffer/clean boost >EH Micro POG (Pitchblack runs off dry out of PB1) >Wampler Ego Compressor >Wampler Ecstasy OD >Wampler Pinnacle Deluxe >Hardwire ML-2 >Fulltone Deja-Vibe >Ibanez Tube King (end of chain tube buffer)
LOOP CHAIN:   Hardwire Phaser, Corona Chorus, Flashback Delay, Hardwire Reverb, BBE Sonic Maximizer

Re: Effect Order

Paul Angle wrote:

No one has any input into the pedal chain arena????

While there does seem to be a concensus in the community at large on placement of some FX...
- Filter/Wah/Compression before gain (Drive and/or amp)
- Drive Pedals before amp
- Delays and Reverbs post-gain (in the loop or even on a cab tap)

...there is no real agreement on placement of modulation FX (Vibe, Flanger, Phaser, Chorus, etc.). The same MOD unit can sound very different placed pre-gain from how it sounds when placed post-gain. But different, in this case, does not mean better - or worse. You have to experiment and decide for yourself what sound you want. There is no convenient, pat answer to the question of MOD FX placement.

Gtrs: PRS Cust. 24 20-Anny Artist, Yamaha PAC1511 Mike Stern Signature
Pedalboard: Barber Tone Press, TC NovaDrive, TC G-System, Eventide ModFactor
Rack: Egnater M4 Modular Tube Preamp, Randall RT2/50 Power Amp, Palmer ADIG-LB load box/cab sim
Acoustic: Stehr Coco/Adi Custom-build OO, Stehr Koa/Adi Custom Build GA, Stehr Braz/Adi Custom Build GA, Taylor 814ce-L10, G-Natural

Re: Effect Order

I agree with that in the regard it depends on the make of the effect and the style of the player as well as the overall chemistry of the guitar and amp as well as whatever else is reacting with the effect. I do believe there is an ideal position for every effect but no one has been able to compile a make and list of what sounds the best. I really hate the often quoted issue that "there are no rules", put a nice delay in front of a gain and you may have to admit that might be a rule. I think about anyone would have to admit a delay or reverb sounds best in the amp loop after the preamp gaining.

I have come to various ideas on the Vibe pedal in the regard the more vintage of a photocell cell circuit it has the more towards the front of the chain it sounds better. I always wondered why Trower was running his vibe first in chain. That is because that is where the DejaVibe sounds the best. I actually had to put it before my Radial Buffer/boost pedal as it did not like the impedance drop from the buffer.

Phasers are narrowing as well. Take an MXR type it can sound good in front of some gains but a Small Stone not really. Phasers I have found sound best at end of amp in chain in regard to the boldness and intensity of the sweep, which is presumably why one uses a phaser. Less intensity can be derived via knob tweaking if you have it. I can cut the numbers of stages on my phaser as well as the depth.

Basically if you like the sweep of modulators, after gains or dirt = bigger phase or effect, before gains or dirt works to thicken the distortion or gain.


I thought I should probably list my board as to provide the ideas I have come to and use for perhaps others to get ideas.

Amp in chain:
Fulltone mini DejaVibe, Radial PB1 Boost/Buffer, Electro-harmonix new Q-Tron Plus, MXR CAE dual inductor Wah, Rivera Blues Shaman Drive, Ibanez Tube King TK999HT high gain. Digitech Hardwire SP-7 Phaser

Amp loop chain:
TC Electronic Corona Chorus (buffer on), TC Flashback Delay, Hardwire RV-7 Reverb, BBE Sonic Maximizer

I have several Carvin custom guitars of various Strat like configs w differing pickups. I run a Carvin V3 amp head into a vintage load 4x12 which I have sitting on a Gramma pad.

I currently do not use a noise reduction pedal or gate as my noise floor is very little if any. My buffer pedal also helps stop a lot of noise and signal degrade. I also have an extensive power supply system which stops any ground looping or power hum problems.

Last edited by Paul Angle (2011-06-26 22:47:27)

AMP IN CHAIN:  CAE/MXR Bradshaw Wah >Radial PB1 High end Buffer/clean boost >EH Micro POG (Pitchblack runs off dry out of PB1) >Wampler Ego Compressor >Wampler Ecstasy OD >Wampler Pinnacle Deluxe >Hardwire ML-2 >Fulltone Deja-Vibe >Ibanez Tube King (end of chain tube buffer)
LOOP CHAIN:   Hardwire Phaser, Corona Chorus, Flashback Delay, Hardwire Reverb, BBE Sonic Maximizer

Re: Effect Order

I run fliters (wah, phasers etc. before distortion).  I like the sound of all my modulators in front of the amp.  In fact all I run in the loop is delay & verb.

For me:  Guitar > Wireless > Tuner > Wah > Phaser > OD (boost only) > Chorus > Amp Input.

Loop : Delay.  Reverb is supplied by the amp.  If t was a pedal, I would put it last, in my loop.

Cheers!

Re: Effect Order

I agree on that myself for the most part. I just like my Chorus in the loop.
I also moved my DejaVibe after my Radial Buffer/Boost pedal.
I prefer a lot of modulators like my phase or vibe on the amp in line.
That Hardwire Phaser really turned out to be an excellent unit, has some really great modes and gives you a lot more options than just a single mode phaser pedal. I love the sound of a phaser after some dirt, just like the sweep much better. I have heard some get a killer sound before dirt and I can get that option by merely running it into a gained amp channel. Just does not sound all that great to my ear.

After a lot of chorus uses and differing units, the last couple I have had just seemed to sound better in the loop. Cleaner, with more headroom and sweep depth. The TC Corona into the Flashback delay is really a good tone. That puppy sound great in the loop, not saying every Chorus will sound better but this one does on my rig. I am amazed how deep and full it is, you would swear it was an analog.

I just made a two level board with my amp loop pedals on the top level, power supply and other feeds go under the level riser. Worked out pretty great for like $25 in wood.

Amp in chain:
MXR CAE dual inductor Wah, Radial PB1 Boost/Buffer, Electro-harmonix new Q-Tron Plus, Rivera Blues Shaman Drive, Ibanez Tube King TK999HT high gain, Fulltone mini DejaVibe Digitech Hardwire SP-7 Phaser
(changed to this set up, just do not like the Vibe into an OD, I can get that better into the amp gain and the OD before adds to the dirt level as an option on both sides. I keep getting weird wah problems on some pedals so I put it on the other side of the buffer as a recommended fix for a lot of internal buffer add-ons to stop pedal interaction problems.)

Amp loop chain:
TC Electronic Corona Chorus (buffer on), TC Flashback Delay, Hardwire RV-7 Reverb, BBE Sonic Maximizer

Last edited by Paul Angle (2011-07-08 07:19:35)

AMP IN CHAIN:  CAE/MXR Bradshaw Wah >Radial PB1 High end Buffer/clean boost >EH Micro POG (Pitchblack runs off dry out of PB1) >Wampler Ego Compressor >Wampler Ecstasy OD >Wampler Pinnacle Deluxe >Hardwire ML-2 >Fulltone Deja-Vibe >Ibanez Tube King (end of chain tube buffer)
LOOP CHAIN:   Hardwire Phaser, Corona Chorus, Flashback Delay, Hardwire Reverb, BBE Sonic Maximizer

Re: Effect Order

I've always found this very useful

http://www.jhspedals.com/jhspedals/Do_y … pedal.html

Re: Effect Order

Thanks. I will check it out. My issues of pedal positions have been surmised from 35 years of playing and having just about everything there is. Some may argue some placements but I am interested more in tonal options and musical versatility than one use sounds or weird setups.

I am currently redoing my board again. Adding some more high end pedals. Thing shave changed since the last post and when the new shipment comes in everything will change again. Adding some more cool new Wampler pedals into my line.

AMP IN CHAIN:  CAE/MXR Bradshaw Wah >Radial PB1 High end Buffer/clean boost >EH Micro POG (Pitchblack runs off dry out of PB1) >Wampler Ego Compressor >Wampler Ecstasy OD >Wampler Pinnacle Deluxe >Hardwire ML-2 >Fulltone Deja-Vibe >Ibanez Tube King (end of chain tube buffer)
LOOP CHAIN:   Hardwire Phaser, Corona Chorus, Flashback Delay, Hardwire Reverb, BBE Sonic Maximizer

Re: Effect Order

There are a few "rules"... A filter pedal would always need to be first in the chain where it can sample the unmodified guitar envelope. OD needs to be before the amp pre-amplifier to do its work. Delays and Reverb usually go in the loop. The rest is up to you.

Last edited by Mel (2011-11-18 16:01:39)

Axe: Gibson LP Florentine, LP Artisan, Terry McInturff Zodiac
FX: TC G-System, TC NovaDrive
Amp: Rivera S-120

Re: Effect Order

I get so angry at the timeout on this board, how many posts have I lost when it logs you out before you get something finished.


In the last year I have changed my board quite a bit and have gone with this setup for some time now.
I just added some new pedals as well.

AMP IN CHAIN:
Radial PB1 high end buffer and foot switch class a clean boost if wanted

EH Q-Tron (probably pulling this out of line, just not using it much)

(wanted the Wampler Compressor which would have gone here, but they were out)

New EH Micro POG

MXR/CAE Bradshaw Wah

Wampler Ecstasy Overdrive

Ibanez HT999TK real tube distortion

Wampler Pinnacle Deluxe High Gain Dist

Fulltone DejaVibe

AMP LOOP CHAIN:
Hardwire PH-7 Phaser

TC Corona Chorus

TC Flashback Delay

Hardwire RV-7 Reverb

BBE Sonic Maximizer

AMP IN CHAIN:  CAE/MXR Bradshaw Wah >Radial PB1 High end Buffer/clean boost >EH Micro POG (Pitchblack runs off dry out of PB1) >Wampler Ego Compressor >Wampler Ecstasy OD >Wampler Pinnacle Deluxe >Hardwire ML-2 >Fulltone Deja-Vibe >Ibanez Tube King (end of chain tube buffer)
LOOP CHAIN:   Hardwire Phaser, Corona Chorus, Flashback Delay, Hardwire Reverb, BBE Sonic Maximizer