Topic: Future development of the PowerCore platform has been ceased, 2

Hey guys,

I've been reading your posts all day and will continue to do so.

I do understand the frustration that some of you express.
There are a couple of things to keep in mind, and I will try to address some of those.
Please let me try to answer the majority of the subjects that have been discussed here; I apologize for this lengthy post.

Support contra development
This announcement is all about development, i.e. new stuff coming to the platform. We want to be clear about decisions that regards new operating systems or major changes in hosts that might happen in the future - before those changes happen.

What we say is that TC will do no new development for the Poco platform: no new plug-ins, no major developments in regards to new operating systems or control panel etc.
At the same time I'd like to underline that we will do bug fixes. We will put out new releases. In fact, we are working on releases for both MAC and PC. The next PowerCore software for MAC will be released no later than a week from now.

This release, named PowerCore 4.3, will include:
* Fixes in regards to 64 bit operation
* A rather large number of fixes of bugs that caused kernel panics
* Fixes for Digital Performer version 7
* Fixes for PCIe cards
* Fixes for memory oriented bugs

There is also an update for PC in the pipeline. This update will address many of the issues mentioned.

Questions & Answers

Q: Why don't TC release native versions of the PowerCore plug-ins?
A: This is one of the main questions discussed, and I do understand why, so let me dig a bit into this.

We have of course considered all possible ways to continue the life of our PowerCore plug-ins. Considerations included upgrading the hardware with new DSPs and we also looked at porting the PowerCore plug-ins to native (AU, VST, RTAS).

Unfortunately, the combination of algorithm complexity, tailor made PowerCore hardware and corresponding software structure makes it a very tedious and huge task to port PowerCore plugins to native, making it a non-viable route for us to take.  We would sooo much like to be able to offer the complete package of PowerCore plug-ins in RTAS, VST and AU formats for you, but I'm afraid it's not an option. Not even close.

A: Have you planned to close down user support for PowerCore?
Q: No. User support will continue. You can call in or use our online support system as always. Also, we have not planned to close down this user forum.

Q: Will you release the PowerCore software as "Open Source" so that others can maintain it?
A: I'm afraid we can't make the PowerCore code open source, mainly but not only because it contains all of our copy protection code.
Also, as I said above, we will do updates ourselves.

Q: Will PowerCore support new versions of my host?
A: We cannot guarantee that PowerCore will run on future host versions. However, PowerCore adheres to the VST and Audio Units specifications, and unless changes are made to the hosts’ handling of plug-ins, PowerCore will remain compatible.

Q: Has TC planned to develop plug-ins for the UAD platform?
A: We are constantly evaluation platforms for our technology. At this time we have no announcements

Q: Has TC planned to close down the TC-Now webshop?
A: No. PowerCore is not discontinued, and people who has bought a PowerCore did it with the expectation that they'll be able to extend the plug-ins for it.

Q: Has TC planned to close the PowerCore user accounts (My Account)?
A: No. The PowerCore user account "My Account" will continue to run. There is absolutely no reason for us to shut it down.
In other words, yes, you will be able to handle your licenses and other things in the future.

Q: How about service for my PowerCore?
A: Service will continue unaffected, too. We will be able to do service on PowerCore products for a long period ahead, so if your experience broken devices, bring them on. Also, there are no changes to the warranty of your PowerCore product.

Hope this answers some of your questions - feel free to comment or ask more.

Thomas Valter
Product Manager, TC Pro

Re: Future development of the PowerCore platform has been ceased, 2

Thanks for answering some of the questions that have been asked.

Cubase 6 has just arrived here today, now just waiting for that Windows driver so I can use it on a session with my powercore 6000.

On the question of:
Q: Has TC planned to develop plug-ins for the UAD platform?
A: We are constantly evaluation platforms for our technology. At this time we have no announcements

I am speculating that this will happen at some point and I look forward to see the MD4 too, what a big seller that one will be.

Powercore 6000 - Powercore Element - windows 7 64bit , cubase 6 32bit and 64bit, Asus ???? Motherboard, intel Quadcore Q6600, RME HDSP 9652 audio card, Texas Inst Firewire card.

                  .........Will update more info when I am at the computer.........

Re: Future development of the PowerCore platform has been ceased, 2

studiodaz,
You're welcome!

I should probably have said "no current plans".

Thomas Valter
Product Manager, TC Pro

Re: Future development of the PowerCore platform has been ceased, 2

SD - Cubase 6 has just landed here too. I won't be able to test Powercore for a while though (got other urgent studio priorities).

If Cubase doesn't play nice, it may be worth looking at the work the "jbridge" guy has been doing. A wrapper might help if things don't work well...

Re: Future development of the PowerCore platform has been ceased, 2

Thanks for that Thomas. Much appreciated.

Shame the source code can't be opened - though I do understand why.

Can I be a little cheeky and ask if you'd consider releasing the PoCo SDK for free?

I'd love it if home-brew plugs could be constructed for PoCo. I'm sure a documented DSP platform would interest hackers too.

Last edited by InactiveX (2011-01-20 20:18:49)

Re: Future development of the PowerCore platform has been ceased, 2

Purusha wrote:

SD - Cubase 6 has just landed here too. I won't be able to test Powercore for a while though (got other urgent studio priorities).

If Cubase doesn't play nice, it may be worth looking at the work the "jbridge" guy has been doing. A wrapper might help if things don't work well...

I'm already on it. See my other thread.

Good luck with C6!

Re: Future development of the PowerCore platform has been ceased, 2

I can live with this -

I just want to keep using VSS3, MD3 and Dynamic EQ .... they are so unique and in a class of their own.

If TC can get fully working W7 64 drivers ..... that will give me another 5+ years of use, which would be great.

By that point I will feel I have fully had my monies worth out of my Poco 6K.

I am hoping TC are as good as their word and look forward to 4.3
After all 3.2 was a great driver for XP, so they have proved they can do it!

tmy

Last edited by themarqueeyears (2011-01-20 20:30:12)

PC Workstation, Windows 7 Professional SP1 (64 bit), DP35DP motherboard, Intel Q9550 CPU, 8GB RAM, Siig PCI-e f/w controller, Powercore PCI-e Express card, Powercore 6000, CL1B, Assimilator, Sonnox EQ, Sonnox Inflator, UAD-2 Quad x1 UAD-1 x2, Cubase 5.53& 6.02, RME 3.26

Re: Future development of the PowerCore platform has been ceased, 2

themarqueeyears,

Good to hear.

We will be addressing Poco 4.0 issues in an upcoming release for PC.

Thomas Valter
Product Manager, TC Pro

Re: Future development of the PowerCore platform has been ceased, 2

Thomas,

Thanks for the clarification.

I am disappointed to hear that there is no chance of you porting these excellent plugs to native. If that means they will appear on the UA platform, then I guess my question is - how long before UA's time is up? With the rate that native computing power is increasing, we all know it is a question of 'when'. And when that time comes, you'd dump your customers in the brown stuff again. Not nice.

Me? I have made my decision to keep using my poco6000 till it dies. It could be as soon as this summer when Apple releases Lion. Perhaps a little longer. Then I'll hang it on my wall as a reminder to never go DSP again. It will spend the remains of its days as an ironic and expensive installation.

Meanwhile, I am researching Algorithmix, Izotope, Sonnox, Softube and other high end native plug makers. I like what they have. I ain't going UA's direction.

Thanks for trying.

p.s. Frankly, I think your UA crossgrade offer hurts you more than it helps.

Re: Future development of the PowerCore platform has been ceased, 2

deoestreich wrote:

    I'm late to the party.  After researching native vs UAD vs PoCo vs duende, etc. and reading the forums here along w/all other reviews and such, I decided to stick my toe into the PoCo DSP pool...I just bought a new PoCo pcie on ebay for $299...two days before the announcement.  It should arrive tomorrow.  I can return for store credit w/in 30 days so I think I'll try it out but at this point I doubt that I'll keep it.

    Here's my dilemma but first some quick detail...the DAW I'd install it in runs Win XP SP 3 which from what I've read should be a stable enough os for at least the ver 3.2 drivers ...what I'm wondering is...are any of the *bundled plugins* worth the trouble of orphaned hardware?  I was very interested in the VSS3 plugin, though aging and dated still seems to get fairly high praise, and was a major factor in choosing to go the PoCo route.  I'm obviously not going to spend $500 on the VSS3 now, not to mention any plugin purchases at this point now that TCE is dumping the platform.  Actually, with the way TCE is retiring this technology I won't purchase or can't recommend anything from TCE anymore.  Anyway, my question to you w/PoCo experience is...are any of the bundled/built in plugins worth dealing with a dead platform and no support?  I feel $299 is reasonable *if* I can get it to work and there's anything I can get like a years worth of use out of.

    Lastly, I'd like to commisurate with you folks who went all in, investing in 6000/X8/FW systems (I was seriously considering an X8...whew).  I've been an early adopter of much in the DAW/digital audio/software/hardware world over the last 10 years and know what a bitter pill this must be for all of you to swallow.

InactiveX wrote:

I'd get a refund and choose a different platform.

Wow, I wish I hadn't just had to say those words...


Thanks for the input IX, I wish you hadn't said those words either.  Well, I'll give the PCIe card an honest try with existing drivers and see what TCE does in the next couple of weeks per Thomas' new post which does sound reassuring...the policy of the ebay "store" I bought it from offers credit only, no refund, which is fine...they sell a lot of gear of various manufacturers so I can try it for a few weeks and worst case scenario I get full credit minus my cost for return shipping.  After reading some of the posts here it seems a lot of current PoCo owners would like to have this option.

Re: Future development of the PowerCore platform has been ceased, 2

peteteo,

You're welcome.

I understand your disappointment - the decision is of course up to you.
Also, I appreciate your support for Poco 6000, my favorite, too.
It won't die before you decide to upgrade, anyway. That's also your decision ;-)

Thomas Valter
Product Manager, TC Pro

Re: Future development of the PowerCore platform has been ceased, 2

thomas@tc wrote:

It won't die before you decide to upgrade, anyway. That's also your decision ;-)

Ha. Do I detect a sly hint at a possible future 'upgrade' route?

Perhaps an upgrade into system 6000? :-p

Re: Future development of the PowerCore platform has been ceased, 2

peteteo wrote:

...... Then I'll hang it on my wall as a reminder to never go DSP again. It will spend the remains of its days as an ironic and expensive installation.

Kinda like the pile of old scsi drives and $150 4 mb simms I can't seem to toss in the trash.  Early adoption is not for the weak minded or weak walleted.

14

Re: Future development of the PowerCore platform has been ceased, 2

thomas@tc wrote:

What we say is that TC will do no new development for the Poco platform: no new plug-ins, no major developments in regards to new operating systems or control panel etc.
At the same time I'd like to underline that we will do bug fixing. We will put out new releases. In fact, we are working on releases for both MAC and PC. The next PowerCore software for MAC will be released no later than a week from now.

This release, named PowerCore 4.3, will include:
* Fixes in regards to 64 bit operation
* A rather large number of fixes of bugs that caused kernel panics
* Fixes for Digital Performer version 7
* Fixes for PCIe cards
* Fixes for memory oriented bugs

thomas, this is helpful and appreciated smile

TC might have avoided some of the flak if they had put this info out sooner!

and is there any chance you can explain what the deal with UAD is? why are you encouraging your customers to migrate to a 'competitor' rather than perhaps to your own hardware?

macbook pro intel / 10.6.4 snow leopard / poco compact / VSS3 plug / Non Lin plug / Voice Mod plug  / logic 9.1.1 / motu 828 mk2 /

Re: Future development of the PowerCore platform has been ceased, 2

deoestreich wrote:

deoestreich wrote:


Thanks for the input IX, I wish you hadn't said those words either.  Well, I'll give the PCIe card an honest try with existing drivers and see what TCE does in the next couple of weeks per Thomas' new post which does sound reassuring...the policy of the ebay "store" I bought it from offers credit only, no refund, which is fine...they sell a lot of gear of various manufacturers so I can try it for a few weeks and worst case scenario I get full credit minus my cost for return shipping.  After reading some of the posts here it seems a lot of current PoCo owners would like to have this option.

I paid about $350 for my PoCo express about a year ago. At the time my purpose for buying it was a really cheap way to get access to a Virus synth. However, over time I have discovered that the basic PoCo package is extremely powerful and full-featured. The bundled plugins pretty much blow away what you get with a stock UAD card. The Character and MasterX3 plugins are well worth the cost of the card alone. The demos for other plugins are also much more useful on PoCo than they are on the UAD platform. Instead of being restricted to a fixed time period (14-days), PoCo demos give you a set number of hours to run each plugin. The hours only countdown when the plugin is actually loaded. If you're smart and manage your projects well you can 'demo' a plugin for months or even years.
As long as you can get it working well in your current setup, I think you still got a bargain.

-e.B

Re: Future development of the PowerCore platform has been ceased, 2

deoestreich wrote:
peteteo wrote:

...... Then I'll hang it on my wall as a reminder to never go DSP again. It will spend the remains of its days as an ironic and expensive installation.

Kinda like the pile of old scsi drives and $150 4 mb simms I can't seem to toss in the trash.  Early adoption is not for the weak minded or weak walleted.

Yes, all the more that you should keep that PCIe you just bought. The poco plugs are very very good (if they work with your rig) despite the risk. Besides, I am sure those scsi drives could do with new company. smile

Re: Future development of the PowerCore platform has been ceased, 2

Thanks for this Thomas. 

The main thing that I hope is that I can continue to use my Powercore for some time, and that when the day comes when this is no longer possible then I would like to be able to use the same great processes with the new technology.

It sounds like the UA route is being considered?  Although I appreciate that you would not want to announce any considerations since I remember how much trouble that has got you guys in the past!

Well if this is the case, or indeed any other possible future platforms for our favourite plugins - then I hope you very strongly consider a very fair crossgrade that takes into account your loyal customers.  The word 'free' has been liberally used on the last thread, and I see in SSL's case that they are going down that road which is a very good move in terms of customer relationships.  This would of course be the best situation for us as customers.

But let me just say with some degree of reason for both sides of the story that I would at least be prepared to pay a 'small fee' to transfer my licenses to another platform, of course bearing in mind the costs also involved in purchasing new hardware to run them on.  If I had to actually buy the licenses over again, even with a discount, I would probably find alternatives.

Thanks again for a more definite and comprehensive answer.

Last edited by HueJahFink (2011-01-20 21:14:36)

Re: Future development of the PowerCore platform has been ceased, 2

Thanks for the information. Good to hear there is a potential repair route should the worst happen. Cheers.

MacBook Pro 13" Core i7, 4GB RAM, Lion 10.7.2, Logic 9.1.6, RME FF800, Powercore FW SW Version 4.3.3, Virus TI KB, Focusrite LM32.

Re: Future development of the PowerCore platform has been ceased, 2

mg,

Thanks, I agree; guess the "case-by-case" frase didn't work. Didn't want to set expectations too high, and I'm happy that things are more clear now.

From the moment we considered to cease further (let's say "long term") development on Poco, UA was not really a competitor anymore, where they?

***

DiScO,

You're welcome - it is company policy to be able to repair for a very long period.

Thomas Valter
Product Manager, TC Pro

Re: Future development of the PowerCore platform has been ceased, 2

deoestreich wrote:
peteteo wrote:

...... Then I'll hang it on my wall as a reminder to never go DSP again. It will spend the remains of its days as an ironic and expensive installation.

Kinda like the pile of old scsi drives and $150 4 mb simms I can't seem to toss in the trash.  Early adoption is not for the weak minded or weak walleted.

The old gear we just can't say goodby to, my Atari its still in the loft waiting for some love.  smile

Powercore 6000 - Powercore Element - windows 7 64bit , cubase 6 32bit and 64bit, Asus ???? Motherboard, intel Quadcore Q6600, RME HDSP 9652 audio card, Texas Inst Firewire card.

                  .........Will update more info when I am at the computer.........

Re: Future development of the PowerCore platform has been ceased, 2

e.Blue wrote:

I paid about $350 for my PoCo express about a year ago. At the time my purpose for buying it was a really cheap way to get access to a Virus synth. However, over time I have discovered that the basic PoCo package is extremely powerful and full-featured. The bundled plugins pretty much blow away what you get with a stock UAD card. The Character and MasterX3 plugins are well worth the cost of the card alone. The demos for other plugins are also much more useful on PoCo than they are on the UAD platform. Instead of being restricted to a fixed time period (14-days), PoCo demos give you a set number of hours to run each plugin. The hours only countdown when the plugin is actually loaded. If you're smart and manage your projects well you can 'demo' a plugin for months or even years.
As long as you can get it working well in your current setup, I think you still got a bargain.

-e.B

Thanks for the input also e.B.  This is pretty much what I was hoping for.  Also, Thomas' post about fixing the win 7 drivers is reassuring too.  I've got two projects right now that I can give it a fairly rigorous test with, pending a successful install, of course.

Re: Future development of the PowerCore platform has been ceased, 2

thomas@tc wrote:

no major developments in regards to new operating systems or control panel etc.
At the same time I'd like to underline that we will do bug fixing. We will put out new releases.

In other words, we are not left without support for all current Operating Systems. That's good to hear.
But does "no major developments" mean that under some circumstances we may expect drivers for future Operating Systems?

Thanks for entering the discussion, Thomas

Re: Future development of the PowerCore platform has been ceased, 2

tune286,

You're welcome, my pleasure.

At this point we can't say if PowerCore will be compatible with e.g. Lion (OSX 10.7). We hope so, but we can't guarantee it; we simply don't know. And that's what the announcement is all about: no guarantees.

If Poco is not compatible, we will not develop a Lion compatible driver; if it is compatible, hey, that's great!

Same with Windows, same with hosts.

Thomas Valter
Product Manager, TC Pro

Re: Future development of the PowerCore platform has been ceased, 2

^^ but if the a new OS update is a few bug fixes away?

Are you wiping your hands of it entirely or just refusing to work on new drivers from the ground up?

Re: Future development of the PowerCore platform has been ceased, 2

Thanks for the post Thomas, this makes more sense than the original mail that I (we) recieved.

Looking forward to a new mac driver that will hopefully cure the "The Plug-In is disabled because of a PowerCore system reset." messages I keep seeing.

MacPro 2.8 Octo (early 2008) * Apogee Ensemble * 2xUAD-1 * 2xPowerCore mkII)* Cubase 4 * VirtuaVia PCIe-adapter kit * Logic Pro 9 * Euphonix MC Control+Mix