• From: New Jersey
  • Registered: 2008-01-21
  • Posts: 297

Re: 24,32,56,64bit what the heck???

Fitz wrote:
biggot wrote:

Honestly I think that's incorrect, and whoever wrote the manual is wrong.

Well obviously - I mean it couldn't possibly be you now could it?

Nah - that would mean biggot would have to admit a mistake on his part. I think his screenname is kind of telling, don't you?

Jack
Proud NRA Life Member and supporter of the 2nd. Amendment
God, guns and rock & roll!
More music toys than I can shake a guitar pick at
  • Registered: 2008-06-05
  • Posts: 89

Re: 24,32,56,64bit what the heck???

ok 64bit will not change the sound of powercore. plz tell me why system 6000 sound better than powercore 6000?
thanks

  • From: New Jersey
  • Registered: 2008-01-21
  • Posts: 297

Re: 24,32,56,64bit what the heck???

firubbi wrote:

ok 64bit will not change the sound of powercore. plz tell me why system 6000 sound better than powercore 6000?
thanks

Better dsp maybe?

Jack
Proud NRA Life Member and supporter of the 2nd. Amendment
God, guns and rock & roll!
More music toys than I can shake a guitar pick at
  • From: KL, Malaysia
  • Registered: 2009-07-08
  • Posts: 40

Re: 24,32,56,64bit what the heck???

This argument has been done to death in every forum from Reaper to Gearslutz.

The big questions is, will the Poco plugins ever be compied for 64bit native or are we doomed to run them through bridges for the entire life of the hardware?

W7x64; English; Dual Xeon E5630; 24GB RAM; 8TB RAID; TI1394; Sonar X1 x64; PCx8 (now deceased)

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  • From: New Jersey
  • Registered: 2008-01-21
  • Posts: 297

Re: 24,32,56,64bit what the heck???

Paul@Calamity wrote:

This argument has been done to death in every forum from Reaper to Gearslutz.

The big questions is, will the Poco plugins ever be compied for 64bit native or are we doomed to run them through bridges for the entire life of the hardware?

I think it's bitbridges forever, unfortunately. There's been various discussions of the subject here and in one of them one of the regular TC people that posts here (sorry I forget which) has said they don't see the need for going 64 bit and that people will be able to make satisfactory music with 32 bit drivers/systems. They don't see the need performance-wise or sound-wise. And when it's entrenched as deeply as it seems to be by those in the company then you know things will never change.

Jack
Proud NRA Life Member and supporter of the 2nd. Amendment
God, guns and rock & roll!
More music toys than I can shake a guitar pick at
  • Fitz
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  • Registered: 2008-01-15
  • Posts: 210

Re: 24,32,56,64bit what the heck???

firubbi wrote:

ok 64bit will not change the sound of powercore. plz tell me why system 6000 sound better than powercore 6000?
thanks

For a start you will be using different D/A converters on a real System 6000.

There are several technical factors that could influence the sound, mostly to do with how the audio data gets to and from the CPU for processing, but the word length of the CPU is absolutely not one of them.

Think of the difference between 32bit and 64bit CPU processing like this - imagine we want to calculate, for example, one hundred multiplied by four.  We can write it like this in one go:

100 * 4 = 400

...but we can also break it up into two smaller calculations:

100 * 2 = 200   
+
100 * 2 = 200
=
400

The people who claim that 64bit CPU word length alters the sound are basically claiming that if we split up a calculation like that, then we will get a different result, which is quite frankly ridiculous.

Do not get CPU word length confused with bit depth of digital audio - they are absolutely not related whatsoever (apart from they both have '64' in the name and refer to Big Numbers).

Last edited by Fitz (2010-07-10 18:52:54)

  • Registered: 2007-11-13
  • Posts: 925

Re: 24,32,56,64bit what the heck???

What we will hopefully get at some point though, is a native 64 bit interface to cubase etc. As people are saying, that won't make a difference to the sound, but would remove the bit bridge kludge!

Kit List & setup
  • From: New Jersey
  • Registered: 2008-01-21
  • Posts: 297

Re: 24,32,56,64bit what the heck???

Purusha wrote:

What we will hopefully get at some point though, is a native 64 bit interface to cubase etc. As people are saying, that won't make a difference to the sound, but would remove the bit bridge kludge!

You know what would help facilitate the process? For TC to make the code open source and let someone else have a go at it. It's happened with UNIX and that is going strong.

Jack
Proud NRA Life Member and supporter of the 2nd. Amendment
God, guns and rock & roll!
More music toys than I can shake a guitar pick at
  • Fitz
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  • Posts: 210

Re: 24,32,56,64bit what the heck???

Purusha wrote:

What we will hopefully get at some point though, is a native 64 bit interface to cubase etc. As people are saying, that won't make a difference to the sound, but would remove the bit bridge kludge!

Amen.

  • Registered: 2009-12-16
  • Posts: 1,061

Re: 24,32,56,64bit what the heck???

jackn2mpu wrote:
Paul@Calamity wrote:

This argument has been done to death in every forum from Reaper to Gearslutz.

The big questions is, will the Poco plugins ever be compied for 64bit native or are we doomed to run them through bridges for the entire life of the hardware?

I think it's bitbridges forever, unfortunately. There's been various discussions of the subject here and in one of them one of the regular TC people that posts here (sorry I forget which) has said they don't see the need for going 64 bit and that people will be able to make satisfactory music with 32 bit drivers/systems. They don't see the need performance-wise or sound-wise. And when it's entrenched as deeply as it seems to be by those in the company then you know things will never change.

Sound-wise it doesn't make any difference all other is completely off-topic and definitely not a TC statement.

Please put your setup in your signature!

This will help us to relate the issue you are talking about to a certain configuration.

  • Registered: 2010-08-03
  • Posts: 21

Re: 24,32,56,64bit what the heck???

jackn2mpu wrote:
firubbi wrote:

ok 64bit will not change the sound of powercore. plz tell me why system 6000 sound better than powercore 6000?
thanks

Better dsp maybe?

Because your hearing is determined by your thinking. A bit is a bit and doesn't sound different just because its produced by another hardware. As I understand the algorithms and the DSPs are the same in the System 6000 and PowerCore 6000. Once both signals have made it (unchanged due to any intermittent DAC/ADC) into your DAW there is no audible or numerical difference.
A descriptive principle about any other difference can be found here:
http://crispian-jago.blogspot.com/2010/ … sense.html

MacPRO 8 core | 6GB | 10.6.8 | X8 | Logic | Konnekt24D | Virus Snow
  • Registered: 2009-12-16
  • Posts: 1,061

Re: 24,32,56,64bit what the heck???

loopo wrote:
jackn2mpu wrote:
firubbi wrote:

ok 64bit will not change the sound of powercore. plz tell me why system 6000 sound better than powercore 6000?
thanks

Better dsp maybe?

Because your hearing is determined by your thinking. A bit is a bit and doesn't sound different just because its produced by another hardware. As I understand the algorithms and the DSPs are the same in the System 6000 and PowerCore 6000. Once both signals have made it (unchanged due to any intermittent DAC/ADC) into your DAW there is no audible or numerical difference.
A descriptive principle about any other difference can be found here:
http://crispian-jago.blogspot.com/2010/ … sense.html

Exactly!
Another difference is the handling. Usually you treat a separate peace of hardware differently then integrated plug-ins - resulting in different sound. And you probably connect external hardware differently; i.e. you could go thru the digital converters of the System 6000 - that aren't available on PowerCore and you probably connect it to your mixer via analogue input and let the signal run into its analogue saturation. This is usually recognized as "warmer" or "better" sounding. Technically its an artifact.

Please put your setup in your signature!

This will help us to relate the issue you are talking about to a certain configuration.

63 Reply by nkf

  • nkf
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  • Registered: 2008-01-14
  • Posts: 18

Re: 24,32,56,64bit what the heck???

hagen@TC wrote:

Another difference is the handling. Usually you treat a separate peace of hardware differently then integrated plug-ins - resulting in different sound.

This is true and often overlooked. And beside this ... the system 6000 is full surround capable the PowerCore is stereo only. The system 6000 is a real work horse for me and is one of the finest hardware devices for audio anyway.